BEMA Episode Link: 206: Reed Dent — The Nature of Truth
Episode Length: 57:36
Published Date: Thu, 11 Feb 2021 01:00:00 -0800
Session 6
About this episode:

Marty Solomon and Brent Billings are joined by special guest Reed Dent. He’s been on staff with Campus Christian Fellowship at Truman State University in Missouri for the last twelve years. He and his wife, LeAnn, have three boys, who provide some great sermon illustrations.

Discussion Video for BEMA 206

Campus Christian Fellowship, Truman State University

Truman State University — Wikipedia

Staff — Campus Christian Fellowship

The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant — Reed Dent, Campus Christian Fellowship

The Parable of the Good Samaritan — Reed Dent, Campus Christian Fellowship

The Wall Street Journal, September 12, 2001 (PDF)

“September 11” by Scott Cairns

“Trump's name to appear on coronavirus stimulus checks sent to Americans” — Fox News

“Trump Seeks To Stimulate Economy By Sending Rare Autographed Photo To Every American” — The Onion

Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition: DSM-5

Where the Wild Things Are by Maurice Sendak

“The Seeing Heart” by Frederick Buechner — YouTube

Secrets in the Dark by Frederick Buechner

John H. Walton — Wikipedia

The Lost World of Genesis One by John H. Walton

The Lord of the Rings: Motion Picture Trilogy

The War by Ken Burns and Lynn Novick

The Art of Biblical Narrative by Robert Alter

The Art of Biblical Poetry by Robert Alter

The Art of Bible Translation by Robert Alter

The Poetics of Biblical Narrative by Meir Sternberg

What Is the Bible? by Rob Bell

Inspired by Rachel Held Evans

Transcript for BEMA 206

Special Guest: Reed Dent.

Notes

*Note: The following notes are handwritten by me, Adam, and I reserve the right to be wrong.

BEMA Episode 206: Reed Dent - The Nature of Truth

Title & Source Summary

Episode: 206 - Reed Dent: The Nature of Truth Hosts: Marty Solomon and Brent Billings, with guest Reed Dent Focus: Understanding different modes of truth in Scripture and how genre affects biblical interpretation

This episode features Reed Dent, a campus minister with Campus Christian Fellowship at Truman State University in Missouri, who explores how we understand truth in Scripture. The conversation challenges the modern assumption that truth must equal factual accuracy, introducing the concept that the Bible uses various literary forms to communicate meaning, not just happenings. Reed argues that while all facts are truthful, not all truth is factual, and that the Bible often uses narrative, poetry, and other genres to communicate experiences and meaning that purely factual reporting cannot capture.

Key Takeaways

  • The Bible is a library of different literary genres, each with its own way of conveying truth
  • Modern Western culture tends to equate truth exclusively with factual accuracy, but ancient literature communicated truth through multiple modes including story, poetry, and satire
  • The question “What is truth?” depends on understanding genre - asking if a Psalm is “factual” is the wrong question
  • We need cultural and historical translators, not just linguistic translators, to understand Scripture properly
  • The parts of Scripture that communicate experience and meaning (not just facts) have more power to transform us
  • Understanding genre doesn’t diminish Scripture’s truth; it helps us receive the truth the text is actually trying to communicate
  • Just as we naturally recognize genre differences in modern media (news vs. satire vs. poetry), we must reactivate that same awareness when reading the Bible

Main Concepts & Theories

The Nature of Truth: Facts vs. Meaning

Reed introduces a fundamental distinction: “All facts are truthful, but not all truth is factual.” He argues that we instinctively know this in everyday life but often forget it when approaching Scripture. Using examples from 9/11 coverage, he contrasts:

  • Factual truth: The Wall Street Journal reporting flight numbers, times, passenger counts - if these details are wrong, the article is false
  • Experiential truth: Poet Scott Cairns’ poem “September 11” using metaphor and imagery to communicate the experience of grief and loss - cannot be judged by factual accuracy but resonates with truth about human experience

Reed emphasizes that the Bible is attempting to convey not just happenings but meaning. The Scripture writers chose literary forms that best communicate the significance and experience of events, not merely their chronological details.

The Library Metaphor

Reed challenges the view of the Bible as a uniform book by presenting it as a library containing different kinds of literature. He uses the example of researching 9/11 in a library - you might find newspaper articles, poetry collections, or documentary films, each communicating truth in different ways. Similarly, the Bible contains:

  • Historical narrative
  • Poetry and songs (Psalms)
  • Prophecy
  • Wisdom literature
  • Parables
  • Apocalyptic literature

Each genre has its own standards for what makes it “true” or effective. Applying the standards of one genre to another creates category errors.

Genre Recognition and the Bible

Modern readers implicitly understand genre differences in contemporary media. Reed illustrates this with two examples:

  1. News vs. Satire: Fox News reporting on stimulus checks (factual journalism) vs. The Onion’s satirical article about Trump sending autographed photos. Both communicate something “true” about the situation, but in radically different ways.

  2. Clinical vs. Narrative: The DSM-V’s clinical description of Oppositional Defiant Disorder vs. “Where The Wild Things Are” - both address childhood behavioral issues, but the picture book communicates the experience in ways that resonate emotionally and transformatively.

The problem is that we “turn that part of our brain off when we go to the Bible because of what we’ve been taught to do.” We need to reactivate our natural genre awareness when reading Scripture.

Frederick Buechner’s Distinction: Fact vs. Truth

Reed references Frederick Buechner’s sermon “The Seeing Heart” which distinguishes:

  • Fact: Observable, measurable data (a mountain is 14,252 feet tall; a child has orange hair)
  • Truth: The deeper reality accessible to “the eyes of the heart” (the mountain’s exquisite majesty; the preciousness of a child that would move you to give your life for them)

Buechner applies this to Thomas encountering the risen Jesus - Thomas had known the facts of Jesus his whole life, but in that moment “saw the truth of Jesus and not just the fact of him.”

The question becomes: How do we best convey something that can only be seen with the eyes of the heart? The biblical writers often chose narrative, poetry, and other literary forms rather than bare factual reporting.

The Danger of Reductionism

Reed warns against reducing God to an object of analysis rather than encounter:

“My concern when it comes to the Bible is that the net result of trying to make everything into the DSM-V or Fox News or whatever it is - that God becomes the subject. He becomes the thing that is there simply to be diagnosed and analyzed and charted. We have all of these pages that we can say about him, like ‘Well, God is omniscient and God is omnipresent and God is whatever.’ While those things may be true, we’re missing all the parts of the scripture that are trying to tell us what an experience with God is like, and those are the things that actually have the capacity to deeply resonate and change us.”

Gregory the Great’s River Metaphor

To address concerns about scriptural elitism, Reed quotes Gregory the Great (6th century): The Scripture is like a river that flows and gets deeper as it goes - “shallow enough for a lamb to go wading and jumping around in, but then down there, it’s deep enough for an elephant to go swimming in.”

The core message of God’s mercy and love is accessible without advanced scholarship, but there are depths available for those who study more deeply. The problem arises when people in the shallow end claim “the whole river is shallow” and deny the validity of deeper exploration, or when those in the deep end claim there’s no shallow entry point.

The Need for Cultural and Historical Translation

Reed emphasizes that it’s not just language that needs translation, but culture, history, and context. He critiques the modern assumption that we can simply “read the Bible as it’s written” without expert help:

“We trust authorities on pretty much everything else. Like if I’m going to build a rocket ship, even if I had like an instruction manual that told me the steps of how to do that, I’m going to want to consult with some authorities on that before I just start putting things together. Why do we somehow think, where did that come from, this idea that we shouldn’t have to consult with authorities on the scripture?”

He argues that scholars who study Ancient Near Eastern creation stories, poetry, and literary conventions provide essential context, and dismissing their work is both an insult and a disservice.

The Spectrum of Interpretation

Reed challenges the idea that one interpretive approach is somehow “neutral” or “just reading what it says”:

“We have this spectrum of views about how to read the Bible. The thing is that view, that’s like, ‘well, I’m just reading the plain meaning of it’ - that is itself a view on the spectrum. It’s not somehow exempt from it, and not everybody has always read the Bible that way.”

He notes that the “plain reading” approach is actually a relatively recent development connected to modernism and post-Enlightenment emphasis on scientific proof. Ancient readers, including the Desert Fathers and rabbinic tradition, approached Scripture with much more nuance.

Examples & Applications

Narcissism: Two Definitions

Reed contrasts two ways of defining narcissism:

  1. Western/Abstract: “An excessive interest or admiration of one’s self; inordinate self-love; self-centeredness that arises from a failure to distinguish yourself from external objects”

  2. Mythological/Experiential: The story of Narcissus, who sees his reflection in a pool, falls in love with it, realizes it’s himself, becomes despondent because he’ll never love anything as much as his own reflection, and kills himself

Which is more “true”? The myth never happened factually, but it communicates the experience and tragedy of narcissism in ways that resonate deeply. Reed asks his students: “Which of these portrayals of narcissism matters more to you?”

The Blu-ray Thought Experiment

Reed presents a thought experiment: Imagine you’re living 3,000 years in the future, and you discover two Blu-rays: “The Lord of the Rings” and Ken Burns’ documentary “The War” about World War II. Both show battles, weapons, and warfare. Both might reference some dim historical memory of conflicts.

How would you know how to differentiate them? How would you know if they’re the same kind of thing or should be understood the same way? You would need scholars who understand not just world history but the history of English literature and fiction. Without that context, you might assume trolls and dragons actually existed alongside tanks and planes.

Reed’s point: “If you were this far removed, it would be pretty presumptive of you to just say, ‘well, I know exactly how these should be read.’” We are similarly removed from the biblical world and need scholarly guidance.

Where the Wild Things Are: A Chiasm

Reed reveals that the beloved picture book “Where the Wild Things Are” is actually structured as a chiasm. The illustration frames start small, gradually get bigger, spread across full pages during the “wild rumpus” at the center (with no text), then progressively shrink back down to end with a blank white page.

This mirrors the narrative arc of Max’s journey into anger and isolation, then his return home to find his food “still hot.” The structure and visual storytelling communicate the experience of childhood anger and reconciliation in ways that clinical descriptions of Oppositional Defiant Disorder cannot capture.

Moses on the Mountain

Reed references the Exodus account of Moses ascending the mountain with its description of precious gemstones and a pathway. He asks: “Did there really appear a gem-laden pathway up into the sky? Well, I don’t know. I won’t say one way or the other, but I can resonate with experiences with God where that seems to be the only language that is adequate to convey the meaning of it and not just the happening of it.”

Personal Stories: Reed’s Children

Reed shares how his son Briggs’ response to the parable of the Good Samaritan inspired their family to keep “homeless packs” in their van with water bottles, gloves, chapstick, and bandaids. This led to an encounter with a homeless man named Squirrel, which amazed Reed’s middle son Jack that “you can just name yourself after an animal.”

Reed notes that children often see moral truths plainly “in very black and white ways” before adults “rationalize away” their compassionate responses. After his sermon, adults approached him trying to justify not helping: “Well, you can’t trust everybody and you can’t help everybody because they’ll take advantage of you.”

Potential Areas for Further Exploration

Genre Studies in Biblical Literature
  • How do we identify different genres within Scripture?
  • What are the conventions of Ancient Near Eastern poetry, narrative, wisdom literature, and apocalyptic writing?
  • How does understanding genre change our reading of specific books like Job, Jonah, or Revelation?
  • What role did oral tradition and memorization play in shaping biblical genres?
The History of Biblical Interpretation
  • How have different traditions (rabbinic Judaism, early church fathers, medieval scholastics, Protestant reformers, modern critical scholars) approached Scripture?
  • What assumptions about truth and interpretation did ancient readers bring that differ from modern assumptions?
  • How has the Enlightenment and scientific method influenced contemporary biblical interpretation?
  • What can we learn from pre-modern interpretive methods?
The Relationship Between History and Theology
  • How do we discern the historical core of biblical narratives while also appreciating their theological shaping?
  • What role does historical accuracy play in the truth claims of Scripture?
  • How do we engage with archaeological and historical research while maintaining faith commitments?
  • Can narratives be “true” in their theological meaning even if historical details are uncertain or symbolic?
Literary Analysis Tools for Scripture
  • What is a chiasm and how does recognizing chiastic structure illuminate meaning?
  • How do parallelism, metaphor, hyperbole, and other literary devices function in biblical texts?
  • What role does narrative technique (point of view, characterization, plot structure) play in conveying theological truth?
  • How can Robert Alter’s work on biblical narrative and poetry enhance our reading?
The Authority of Scripture
  • How does recognizing diverse genres affect our understanding of biblical authority and inerrancy?
  • What does it mean for different types of biblical literature to be “without error”?
  • How do we maintain confidence in Scripture while acknowledging its literary complexity?
  • What is the relationship between the human authors’ cultural contexts and divine inspiration?
Practical Hermeneutics for Community
  • How do we teach genre awareness in churches and small groups?
  • What tools can non-scholars use to better understand biblical context and culture?
  • How do we balance accessibility (Gregory’s “lamb in the shallow end”) with scholarly depth?
  • When should we consult experts, and how do we discern between different scholarly perspectives?
The Role of Experience in Interpretation
  • How does personal and communal experience shape our reading of Scripture?
  • What is the relationship between intellectual understanding and heart-level transformation?
  • How do we read Scripture to encounter God and not just analyze concepts about God?
  • What spiritual practices help us read with “the eyes of the heart”?

Comprehension Questions

  1. Explain the distinction: What does Reed mean when he says “All facts are truthful, but not all truth is factual”? Provide an example from the episode that illustrates this principle.

  2. Genre and Truth: Why does Reed argue that asking whether a Psalm is “factual” or “verifiable” is asking the wrong question? What would be a better question to ask about a Psalm’s truth?

  3. The Library Metaphor: How does thinking of the Bible as a “library” rather than a single uniform book change the way we approach questions about biblical inerrancy and truth? Use Reed’s 9/11 research example to illustrate your answer.

  4. Cultural Translation: Reed argues we need more than just linguistic translation of Scripture - we also need cultural and historical translation. Why is this necessary, and what dangers arise when we assume we can simply read the Bible “as written” without this context?

  5. Transformation vs. Analysis: According to Reed, what is the danger of reducing all biblical truth to factual, analyzable data? What parts of Scripture are we missing when we do this, and why do those parts matter more for spiritual formation?

Summary

In this conversation, Reed Dent challenges modern assumptions about truth and Scripture by demonstrating that the Bible uses diverse literary genres to communicate not just factual happenings but experiential meaning. Drawing from his work with college students at Truman State University, Reed observes that contemporary readers struggle with biblical interpretation because we’ve been conditioned to equate truth exclusively with factual accuracy - a relatively recent development tied to Enlightenment thinking.

Reed argues that we naturally recognize genre differences in everyday life - understanding that a news article, satirical piece, and poem all communicate truth differently - but we “turn that part of our brain off” when approaching Scripture. Using examples from 9/11 coverage, children’s literature, and the myth of Narcissus, he demonstrates that some truths about human experience can only be adequately communicated through narrative, poetry, and metaphor rather than bare factual reporting.

The heart of Reed’s message is that Scripture aims to convey what Frederick Buechner calls the “truth” rather than just the “facts” - the kind of truth we see “with the eyes of the heart” rather than merely record with data. When we reduce the Bible to a collection of factual claims requiring verification, we risk missing the very parts that have power to transform us: the experiences of God that biblical writers chose narrative and poetry to communicate.

Reed addresses concerns about interpretive relativism by affirming that core Christian truths remain accessible without advanced degrees (using Gregory the Great’s river metaphor), while also insisting we need cultural and historical experts just as we trust experts in other fields. The “plain reading” approach is itself an interpretive stance on a spectrum, not a neutral default position.

Ultimately, this episode invites listeners to approach Scripture with the same genre awareness we bring to all other reading, recognizing that different kinds of biblical literature communicate truth in different ways - and that understanding how a text means to be true is essential to receiving the truth it offers.

Books Mentioned in Episode
  • The Art of Biblical Narrative by Robert Alter
  • The Art of Biblical Poetry by Robert Alter
  • The Art of Biblical Translation by Robert Alter
  • Poetics of Biblical Narrative by Meir Sternberg
  • What Is the Bible? by Rob Bell
  • Inspired by Rachel Held Evans
Other Works Referenced
  • “The Seeing Heart” sermon by Frederick Buechner
  • The Lost World of Genesis One by John Walton
  • Where the Wild Things Are by Maurice Sendak
  • Scott Cairns’ poem “September 11”
Contact Information
  • Campus Christian Fellowship at Truman State University: CCFTruman.org
  • Reed Dent’s contact information available through the CCF website
  • Reed’s sermons referenced in episode: Parable of the Unforgiving Servant and Parable of the Good Samaritan (linked in BEMA show notes)

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