BEMA Episode Link: 251: John Roberts — A Griever’s Guide to Life
Episode Length: 49:00
Published Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2021 01:00:00 -0800
Session 6
About this episode:

Marty Solomon and Brent Billings are joined by special guest John Roberts to discuss his book, A Griever’s Guide to Life.

Discussion Video for BEMA 251

A Griever’s Guide to Life by John McNeely Roberts

“September” by Earth, Wind, and Fire — YouTube

Home Video: La Paz, Bolivia Vol. 1 — Olivia Roberts, YouTube

“Not for Me to Say” by Johnny Mathis — YouTube

B-Olivia Library

John’s family in 2015 | Olivia in 2016

Transcript for BEMA 251

Additional audio production by Gus Simpson

Special Guest: John Roberts.

Notes

*Note: The following notes are handwritten by me, Adam, and I reserve the right to be wrong.

BEMA 251: John Roberts - A Griever’s Guide to Life - Study Notes

Title & Source Summary

Episode: 251 - John Roberts: A Griever’s Guide to Life Hosts: Marty Solomon and Brent Billings Guest: John Roberts, author of “A Griever’s Guide to Life” Focus: Grief, trauma, and finding God in the midst of profound loss

This episode features a deeply personal conversation with John Roberts, who lost his 18-year-old daughter Olivia in a car accident just three days before she was to leave for college. John shares his journey through grief and the insights he gained while writing his book. The discussion explores how to engage with grief in healthy ways, the role of community in mourning, how to read Scripture through the lens of trauma, and what it means to find God’s presence in the midst of profound loss. The episode emphasizes the importance of entering the house of mourning, sitting with difficult emotions, and avoiding the temptation to rush to easy answers or superficial comfort.

Key Takeaways

• Grief is neither your enemy nor your friend - it is a companion on a difficult journey that cannot be avoided or rushed
• The most important thing friends can do for grievers is to be present without trying to fix things or say the right words
• Processing grief requires rethinking God and Scripture in light of trauma, moving beyond simplistic interpretations like “God said it, I believe it, that settles it”
• The journey inward - a spiritual exploration of the soul - is often the most rewarding and necessary journey, even though few dare to venture there
• Guilt often accompanies grief not because it has a grasp on us, but because we grasp it in an attempt to find answers or assign blame
• Entering the house of mourning (Ecclesiastes 7) offers wisdom that cannot be found in the house of feasting
• God’s presence in grief is found through Jesus who grieves with us (as with Lazarus), the Holy Spirit as comforter, and God as wonderful counselor
• There is no “getting over” grief in a linear way - there are good days and bad days, but the journey continues with growth
• Love must be brought into grief relationships with patience and gentleness (1 Corinthians 13, Ephesians 5)
• It is okay to ask “why” and to wrestle with difficult theological questions - they are worthy questions in the context of pain and trauma

Main Concepts & Theories

The Nature of Grief

John challenges two common but unhelpful perspectives on grief. First, he rejects the idea that grief is an enemy to be fought against or overcome as quickly as possible. This approach, particularly common among men, treats sadness as something to battle and leads to unhealthy shortcuts and avoidance. Second, he also rejects the notion that grief becomes a friend or comfortable companion. Instead, grief is presented as a reality that will accompany the griever on their journey - neither friend nor enemy, but an inevitable presence that must be acknowledged and engaged.

The book emphasizes that grief requires going toward the pain rather than away from it. This counter-cultural approach recognizes that healing cannot happen through avoidance. John describes how some readers reported having to put the book down because facing these emotions and rethinking God was too intense - yet he affirms that eventually going there is important and necessary. The journey is not linear and cannot be plotted on a graph; there are good days and bad days, but movement forward is possible.

Rethinking God Through Trauma

One of the central themes is the necessity of rethinking one’s understanding of God in light of traumatic experience. John describes growing up with a bumper-sticker theology: “God said it. I believe it. And that settles it.” This approach, he realized, was insufficient for someone experiencing grief and trauma. He needed to understand the Bible not as simple commands requiring compliance but as revealing a God who could meet him in his questions and pain.

This involved reexamining familiar passages like Jeremiah 29:11 (the promise of hope and a future). John came to understand this not as a personal promise that could be claimed in any situation but as revealing God’s heart and faithfulness within a specific historical context - a promise that included 70 years of waiting. The BEMA podcast helped John in this journey of seeing Scripture in its original context while still finding meaning for his own experience.

John asked deep theological questions: Why did this happen? Was this God’s will? Where was God? Why didn’t He prevent this? These questions, first voiced in the emergency room, are presented as fair and worthy questions for anyone in trauma. The book emphasizes that one doesn’t have to find immediate answers, but asking the questions is essential and spiritually healthy.

The Role of Community in Grief

John’s experience highlights the critical importance of community in navigating grief. He describes being surrounded by “therapists” - his wife Beta is a therapist, his hiking friend Steve asks therapeutic questions, and close friends include psychiatrists and psychologists. Rather than seeing this as coincidence, John views it as evidence of a God who “orchestrates” and “works for the good,” placing people in his life “for such a time as this.”

Using biblical language, John describes having his “Jonathans” (encouraging friends), “Nathans” (truth-tellers), and “Abigails” (wise counselors). This reflects the ancient pattern of God’s people receiving wisdom and support through relationships. The book emphasizes that different people process grief in different ways - Beta journaled emotions and gathered with friends, while John withdrew (not unhealthily) to meditate, think, and work through his questions.

For those supporting grievers, John offers practical wisdom drawn from Job’s friends: they were most helpful during the first week when they simply sat in silence and were present. The key is not avoiding the griever for fear of saying the wrong thing, but being present, showing up, and using whatever gifts one has (whether mowing the lawn, organizing, or offering spiritual wisdom). Simple presence matters more than perfect words.

Guilt in the Grief Process

John identifies guilt as one of the most intense aspects of his grief journey. The chapter on guilt was so difficult to write that he would shake while typing. Guilt and grief go hand-in-hand, often manifesting in questions like “Where were you, Dad?” that grievers ask themselves. John worked through these feelings through conversations with friends, wrestling with Scripture (particularly Job and his friends), and deep self-reflection.

A breakthrough came when John realized that guilt didn’t have a grasp on him - rather, he was grasping guilt. This self-imposed grip came from his desire to have answers, his anger, and his need to answer the question “why?” - which often led back to self-blame. Understanding that he was choosing to hold onto guilt rather than being held by it gave him agency in releasing it.

This guilt intertwines with other aspects of grief and affects all relationships. John notes that grief can be very destructive to relationships, requiring intentional application of biblical principles like “love is patient, love is kind” (1 Corinthians 13) and the husband’s role as gentle healer modeled after Jesus (Ephesians 5). The work of addressing guilt is ongoing and not something that disappears completely, but having alternatives and hope rooted in Scripture (like Isaiah 61) provides a foundation for healing.

Entering the House of Mourning

Drawing heavily from Ecclesiastes 7, John emphasizes the wisdom found in entering the house of mourning rather than the house of feasting. This passage, which John might have dismissed when younger (thinking Solomon just “had a bad day” when writing Ecclesiastes), became profoundly meaningful through his experience. As an older person who has “seen some things,” John affirms that Solomon was right - there is wisdom in mourning that must be accessed at every age.

This wisdom is not easy or comfortable. Ecclesiastes 7 contrasts the house of mourning with the house of celebration - the latter is clearly more fun and appealing. Yet the house of mourning offers something essential: a grounding in reality, a depth of understanding, and an encounter with aspects of human existence that cannot be found in constant celebration. The chapter may represent the center or pinnacle of Ecclesiastes’ wisdom literature.

This Jewish practice finds expression in sitting Shiva - the practice of simply showing up, being committed to presence with the bereaved, saying less, and worrying about doing the right thing less. The focus is on full presence in relationship rather than performing correctly or finding perfect words. This ancient wisdom challenges contemporary culture’s tendency to avoid pain and rush toward easy comfort.

The Journey Inward

One of John’s most profound reflections came while answering questions in a book from his daughter Emily designed to help her get to know him better. When asked where he would travel in the world, John concluded with his own insight: “The most rewarding journey is when one ventures inwardly, a spiritual journey, an in-depth exploration of the soul, a destination unknown where few dare to venture.”

This inward journey represents a willingness to explore one’s own soul, emotions, and spiritual life in depth. John contrasts this with how many people view journeys - typically as external explorations of places or experiences. The inward journey requires courage because it ventures into unknown territory without a clear destination or timeline. It involves getting in touch with emotions and experiences that many, particularly in American culture, prefer to avoid.

This connects to Paul’s prayer in Ephesians 3 that God would dwell in our “inmost being.” The question John raises is whether we are willing to go there ourselves - to venture into our own inner depths where God desires to meet us. This is not presented as heavy or morbid but as valuable and necessary. The book’s goal is to help people feel comfortable undertaking this inward spiritual exploration, recognizing that God not only invites this journey but accompanies us on it.

Three Aspects of God in Grief

John offers a Trinitarian perspective on God’s presence in grief, drawing on three names and roles that become particularly meaningful in suffering:

1. God as Wonderful Counselor - Not just counselor, but wonderful counselor. This speaks to God’s role as the ultimate therapist and guide, surpassing even the helpful human counselors and therapists John describes having in his life.

2. Jesus as the One Who Grieves With Us - John finds deep meaning in the story of Jesus with Mary and Martha at Lazarus’s death. Remarkably, John states that he gets more meaning from Jesus grieving with them than from Jesus raising Lazarus from the dead. This emphasizes incarnational presence - Jesus walking with us in our grief, understanding it from within human experience - as more immediately comforting than demonstrations of power.

3. Holy Spirit as Comforter - The Holy Spirit’s specific designation as comforter takes on profound significance in the context of grief and loss. This is not abstract theological language but describes the Spirit’s active role in bringing comfort to those who mourn.

Together, these three aspects reveal a God who is fully aware, who understands grief, and who actively brings comfort and presence to those who suffer. This stands in contrast to simplistic views of God that John had to leave behind - views that couldn’t sustain the weight of real trauma and loss.

Examples & Applications

Personal Processing of Grief

John and his wife Beta demonstrate that there is no single “right” way to process grief. Beta used journaling to write out emotions and prayers, and she gathered with her circle of friends for support and connection. This more relational and expressive approach contrasted with John’s method of withdrawing (in a healthy way) for alone time to meditate, think, and dive into difficult questions about God and the Bible. Both approaches were valid and necessary for their individual healing, illustrating that grief is personal and requires self-awareness about what one needs.

The Publishing Timing

The book was published in March 2020 - the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. While John doesn’t elaborate extensively on this timing, it represents an ironic coincidence that a book about grief, loss, and learning to live with ongoing difficulty was released just as the entire world entered a collective experience of loss, isolation, and grief. This timing, though unplanned, may have given the book unexpected relevance as readers found themselves navigating their own experiences of loss and disruption.

The Bolivia Library Project

Olivia had traveled to Nicaragua once and Bolivia twice on service and mission trips. In her memory, John and his family established a nonprofit focused on libraries in Bolivia, with the theme “Be Like Olivia” (reflected in the website name BOlivialibrary.com). This represents one way of channeling grief into meaningful action that honors Olivia’s values and passions. It allows the family and others to continue Olivia’s work and keep her spirit alive through service to others.

Practical Support Examples

John shares concrete examples of how people supported his family in practical ways. Someone came over and randomly mowed their lawn - a simple act that demonstrated care without requiring the griever to ask for help or make decisions. Others brought food, organized meals, or helped with logistics. These practical acts of service represent ways that people with different gifts (not everyone is comfortable with emotional conversations) can still show love and support. They embody the principle that presence and action matter more than perfect words.

Reexamining Jeremiah 29:11

John describes his journey with one of the most commonly quoted “promise” verses in Scripture. Many Christians claim Jeremiah 29:11 (“For I know the plans I have for you…plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future”) as a personal promise that God has good plans for their individual lives. Through BEMA and his own study, John realized this promise was given to a specific people in a specific context - the Israelites facing 70 years of exile.

While this doesn’t eliminate the verse’s value, it changes how it should be applied. Rather than a guarantee that nothing bad will happen, it reveals God’s heart and faithfulness to His people even in the midst of prolonged difficulty and exile. For someone whose daughter just died, this recontextualized understanding is actually more helpful than a superficial reading that reality has contradicted. It points to a God who remains faithful through long, difficult journeys rather than one who simply prevents all tragedy.

Scripture Transformed by Experience

Several passages of Scripture took on new or deeper meaning for John through his grief:

• 1 Corinthians 13 (love is patient, kind, etc.) moved from a passage read at weddings to essential guidance for being a husband and father to grievers, recognizing that grief can damage relationships and requiring intentional, patient love.

• Ephesians 5 (husband and wife, Christ and the church) became a model for John’s role as a “gentle healer” in his marriage, following Jesus’s approach to restoration.

• Ecclesiastes 7 moved from something John might have dismissed to profound wisdom about the necessity of entering the house of mourning.

• Isaiah 61 provided an “alternative” and source of hope even when feelings of hope were absent.

• The story of Jesus with Mary and Martha at Lazarus’s death shifted from being primarily about resurrection power to being about Jesus’s willingness to enter into human grief and weep with those who mourn.

Hiking with Steve

John’s friend Steve, a therapist, regularly goes on hikes with John. John describes how he knows “the deal” - he’s going to get therapeutic questions during these hikes. While he says this somewhat in jest, he acknowledges it as a genuine blessing. This demonstrates how care and therapy can be integrated into normal activities and friendship. The combination of physical activity (hiking), natural beauty, and trusted friendship creates a safe space for processing difficult emotions and questions. Steve represents one of John’s “Jonathans” - an encouraging, supportive friend who helps him spiritually in his time of need.

The Video Set to Johnny Mathis

Olivia created a video of her last mission trip to Bolivia (about 6-8 weeks before she died) and set it to Johnny Mathis’s song “Not For Me to Say.” John reflects on the depth and meaning of this choice - how unusual it is for an 18-year-old to know and appreciate Johnny Mathis. This detail illustrates Olivia’s character as an “old soul” with deep appreciation for meaningful music and relationships. The existence of this video, created so close to her death, takes on profound significance in retrospect, serving as a last gift and window into her heart. It represents the kind of thing that becomes precious to grieving families - artifacts that capture the essence of the person they lost.

Emily’s Gift to Her Father

Emily gave John a book designed to help her know her father better - essentially a guided journal with 160 questions, each with a blank page for his response and occasional quotes from Maya Angelou or Walt Whitman. This gift represents the family’s ongoing relationship and healing. Rather than being frozen in grief, they are finding ways to grow closer and know each other more deeply. John’s work on this book led to his insight about the inward journey being the most rewarding, showing how everyday activities can become vehicles for profound self-discovery and spiritual insight.

The Five Girls in the Car

The accident involved five young women - Olivia, her sister Emily, and their friends Blair, Megan, and Carly. Four of them survived with various injuries (bruises, cracked ribs), while Olivia died. John handles this detail with grace, noting that these families are all connected through this shared traumatic experience. The parents - particularly Buzz and Virginia (parents of Carly and Blair) and Michelle (Megan’s mom, described as a psychologist and dear friend) - became part of John’s support system. This illustrates how tragedy can deepen relationships and create bonds of shared experience, even in the midst of pain.

The Anniversary Timing

Olivia died on John and Beta’s 25th wedding anniversary. They were sitting down with dessert to exchange anniversary gifts when they received the call from Emily. Olivia was packed and three days away from leaving for college. This confluence of timing - a celebration becoming a tragedy, a milestone anniversary forever marked by loss, the precipice of a major life transition - adds layers of complexity to their grief. Multiple losses and interrupted narratives compound the difficulty: the loss of Olivia, the loss of what their anniversary means, the loss of the college experience they’d anticipated, the loss of their vision of their family’s future.

Potential Areas for Further Exploration

• The theology of suffering: exploring various biblical and theological frameworks for understanding why bad things happen, particularly to good people or in situations that seem especially unjust
• Deconstruction and reconstruction of faith: examining the process of dismantling unhelpful or insufficient theological frameworks and rebuilding faith on a more solid foundation after trauma
• Comparative grief practices: studying how different cultures and religious traditions approach mourning, including extended practices like sitting Shiva in Jewish tradition
• The relationship between guilt and grief: psychological and spiritual perspectives on why these often go together and therapeutic approaches to addressing guilt
• Gender differences in grief processing: exploring whether and how men and women typically approach grief differently and the cultural factors that influence these patterns
• The role of questions in faith: theological perspectives on doubt, wrestling with God, and the biblical tradition of lament and questioning (Job, Psalms, Habakkuk)
• Long-term impacts of grief on relationships: understanding how families navigate grief together, especially when members grieve differently
• The ministry of presence: practical theology of accompaniment, being with rather than doing for, and the biblical basis for this approach
• Childhood/youth bereavement: understanding how young people process grief and what special considerations apply
• Writing as therapy: examining the psychological and spiritual benefits of journaling and writing through difficult experiences
• The problem of evil: classical philosophical and theological approaches to theodicy and how they relate to personal suffering
• Anticipatory grief: understanding the grief that comes from knowing loss is coming (as Olivia’s departure for college would have been a form of this)
• The spirituality of Ecclesiastes: deeper study of this wisdom book’s teaching on meaning, suffering, and the human condition
• Resurrection hope: how Christian eschatology (belief in resurrection and new creation) informs grief without dismissing present pain
• The neuroscience of grief: understanding the biological and neurological processes involved in grief and trauma

Comprehension Questions

1. Why does John reject both the view of grief as “enemy” and as “friend,” and what alternative understanding does he offer for how to relate to grief?

2. What does John mean by the “most rewarding journey is when one ventures inwardly,” and how does this relate to his grief process and spiritual growth?

3. How did John’s understanding of Jeremiah 29:11 change through his grief journey, and why was this recontextualized interpretation actually more helpful than a surface reading?

4. What breakthrough did John experience regarding guilt when he realized “it’s not grasping me, I’m grasping it”? What does this reveal about agency in the grief process?

5. Drawing on John’s experience and Ecclesiastes 7, why is “entering the house of mourning” important, and what wisdom is found there that cannot be found in the “house of feasting”?

Personalized Summary

This episode presents grief not as a problem to be solved but as a journey to be walked, with neither easy answers nor quick resolutions. John Roberts’s hard-won wisdom challenges superficial approaches to suffering while offering practical and theological depth for those in pain. His emphasis on presence over performance, questions over certainty, and the inward journey over avoidance provides a framework for healthy grief processing.

The conversation highlights how grief requires rethinking God and Scripture - not abandoning faith but deepening it beyond bumper-sticker theology to a more robust understanding that can sustain the weight of real tragedy. John’s experience demonstrates that community is essential, that different people grieve differently, and that healing is possible even when the loss never goes away.

Perhaps most powerfully, the episode invites all of us - whether currently grieving or not - to “enter the house of mourning” and undertake the inward journey that few dare to venture. There is wisdom there: wisdom about ourselves, about relationships, about God, and about what it means to be fully human in a world marked by both beauty and brokenness. John’s vulnerability in sharing his story provides a gift to listeners, modeling how to integrate loss into life without being destroyed by it, how to honor those we’ve lost while continuing to live, and how to find God’s presence not beyond or after our grief, but within it.

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