BEMA Episode Link: 230: Mandy Smith — Unfettered
Episode Length: 52:12
Published Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 01:00:00 -0700
Session 6
About this episode:

Marty Solomon and Brent Billings are joined by special guest Mandy Smith, pastor, author, and speaker. She is a regular contributor to Christianity Today and Missio Alliance, and a part of the Ecclesia Network. She and her husband, Jamie, a New Testament professor, have two kids.

Discussion Video for BEMA 230

St. Lucia Uniting Church

The Vulnerable Pastor by Mandy Smith

Unfettered by Mandy Smith

The Wordless Book by Charles H. Spurgeon

The Whole Good News — Missio Alliance [this event happened in 2021]

Mandy Smith at Christianity Today

Mandy Smith at Missio Alliance

Mandy Smith at Ecclesia Network

Mandy Smith on Vimeo

The Way Is the Way

Mandy Smith on Twitter

Transcript for BEMA 230

Additional audio production by Gus Simpson

Special Guest: Mandy Smith.

Notes

*Note: The following notes are handwritten by me, Adam, and I reserve the right to be wrong.

BEMA 230: Mandy Smith - Unfettered

Title & Source Summary

Episode: 230 - Mandy Smith: Unfettered Hosts: Marty Solomon and Brent Billings Guest: Mandy Smith - Pastor, author, and speaker Focus: Childlike faith, rest, Sabbath, and moving beyond Western cultural baggage in Christianity

This episode features a conversation with Mandy Smith, pastor and author of “Unfettered: Imagining a Childlike Faith beyond the Baggage of Western Culture.” The discussion explores the barriers to rest and Sabbath, the tension between childlike and adult-ish approaches to faith, and how Western Christianity has limited our understanding of the Gospel. Mandy shares insights from her pastoral experience in both the United States and Australia, addressing how cultural contexts shape our theology and spiritual practices.

Key Takeaways

  • Rest is not just about taking time off but about releasing control and trusting that God is sustaining everything, which Sabbath practice teaches us at a deep level
  • Western Christianity’s presentation of the Gospel often doesn’t feel like good news because it starts with convincing people they are horrible sinners rather than connecting with actual felt needs
  • The “adult-ish” self (the over-concerned, respectable voice) critiques and blocks our childlike faith with shame and fear, keeping us from receiving God’s presence
  • True childlikeness involves being comfortable with both powerlessness and power, while childishness and adult-ishness represent insecurity in these areas
  • Spiritual formation happens through engaging all our senses and creation, not just intellectual understanding - God meets us in dragonflies, running water, and daily experiences
  • Different cultural contexts (Eastern vs. Western, indigenous perspectives, minority experiences) offer metaphors for the Gospel that may resonate more deeply than guilt-based, individualistic Western frameworks
  • The discipline of childlike faith involves letting ourselves be interrupted and giving value to sensory experiences and creation as gifts from God

Main Concepts & Theories

The Barriers to Rest

Mandy identifies four key concerns that prevent us from resting:

  1. Intellectual Concerns - The need to understand and figure everything out before we can rest
  2. Theological Concerns - Religious beliefs that make us feel we must constantly work or prove ourselves
  3. Power Concerns - The fear that if we stop controlling things, everything will fall apart
  4. Existential Concerns - Deep anxiety about our worth and identity being tied to productivity

These barriers are reinforced by Western cultural values that tell us stopping means failure, that our worth is tied to productivity, and that rest is weakness. This is exemplified in small cultural symbols like HALLS cough drops with wrappers that say things like “suck it up” rather than encouraging rest when sick.

Rest as Releasing Deity

Rest, particularly Sabbath-keeping, is fundamentally about “resting from our own desire to be God.” It involves:

  • Switching tracks from being in charge of everything to trusting God is carrying the world
  • Recognizing that even when we think we’re doing everything, we remain utterly dependent on God
  • Learning through the discomfort of giving God control for a day
  • Understanding that any gifts or abilities we have come from God in the first place

The Sabbath day in Genesis 1 uniquely lacks the refrain “evening and morning” - suggesting an ongoing invitation to rest that never closes. As Hebrews reminds us, the invitation to enter God’s rest still stands today.

The Adult-ish vs. Childlike Self

Mandy distinguishes between four aspects of self:

  • Childlike - Unafraid of powerlessness, able to receive, open to wonder and interruption
  • Adult-like - Unafraid of power, taking appropriate responsibility while maintaining humility
  • Child-ish - Insecure in powerlessness, irresponsible, immature
  • Adult-ish - Insecure in power, over-controlling, concerned with appearances and respectability

The “adult-ish” self (which Mandy names “Amanda” in her own life) is the voice that:

  • Critiques childlike openness with shame
  • Demands respectability and proper responses
  • Blocks receiving and responding to God’s presence
  • Keeps us bound to others’ opinions and our own need for control

The goal is to live in the tension between being childlike (unafraid of powerlessness) and adult-like (unafraid of power), holding both our position as “crowning glory of creation” and “nothing but dust.”

Whole-Person Spiritual Formation

Western Christianity has overemphasized intellectual learning while neglecting other ways of knowing God:

  • Sensory experiences (how good the shower feels, how coffee tastes)
  • Encounters with creation (dragonflies, running water, hawks on updrafts)
  • Bodily awareness and instincts
  • Movement, music, silence, and various modes of engagement

These are not merely metaphors but actual encounters with God’s Kingdom already flourishing around us. When Jesus says “consider the lilies and the birds,” he’s not offering a Hallmark sentiment but pointing to the Kingdom of God’s abundance already present.

Cultural Contexts and the Gospel

Western presentations of the Gospel tend to be:

  • Individualistic (focused on personal sin and personal salvation)
  • Guilt-based (focused on legal/courtroom metaphors)
  • Institutional (engaging with systems of judgment and acquittal)

Eastern and other cultural contexts often emphasize:

  • Communal identity (understanding self as part of extended family/community)
  • Shame-based (focused on exclusion from community and restoration to belonging)
  • Relational (using family metaphors like the prodigal son)

Neither approach should be discarded, but Western Christians need exposure to other metaphors that may connect more deeply with actual human experiences and felt needs. The Gospel must be genuinely good news, not just a system we must convince people they need.

The Discipline of Interruption

Childlike faith requires cultivating:

  • Openness to being interrupted by God’s presence in unexpected moments
  • Attention to what makes the “adult-ish” self uncomfortable
  • Pursuing the things that lead toward God and childlikeness rather than fighting the adult-ish voice
  • Comfort with discomfort and limitation
  • Trust that God meets us in silence and every experience of our bodies

This involves not forcing spiritual experiences or anxiously seeking God, but rather being okay with silence and trusting God’s presence in all circumstances.

Examples & Applications

Personal Sabbath Practices

Mandy describes the traditional end-of-Sabbath ritual where wine is poured into a cup until it overflows - a physical reminder of wanting the sweetness of Sabbath to flow into all of life. This illustrates how specific practices can teach spiritual truths at a visceral level.

The Dragonfly Encounter

Brent’s experience during a personal retreat day exemplifies the concept of interruption and whole-person spiritual formation. While reading near a creek, a dragonfly appeared and created a moment of transcendent awareness. Though it felt “stupid” to his adult-ish self, it was an authentic encounter with “God’s holiness, the holiness of your own existence, and of all creation.” Nothing needed to “come of it” in measurable terms - the awareness itself was the gift.

Hawks as Kingdom Metaphor

Mandy describes watching hawks gliding on updrafts while feeling overwhelmed by ministry tasks. The hawk “flourishing in the Kingdom of God,” hunting for its next mouse without anxiety, motivated by hunger but living in peace, became a reminder that “the same peace and awareness is available to me as well if I just open myself up to it.”

The Wordless Book

Spurgeon’s evangelistic tool uses colors (black, red, white, gold) to represent sin, Jesus’s blood, purification, and heaven. While scriptural to a degree, Mandy notes its severe limitations - it assumes people already believe in God, have a sense of moral code, and are primarily motivated by guilt. This example shows how well-intentioned tools can actually obscure the good news rather than reveal it.

Moving During a Pandemic

Both Mandy’s international move from Cincinnati to Brisbane and Marty’s domestic move to Cincinnati during COVID illustrate how God works through circumstances we wouldn’t choose. If God had revealed the full plan ahead of time, it might have changed their decisions, but divine orchestration worked through the discomfort.

Australian vs. American Cultural Differences

The example of people in the US driving with a bed on their car roof, holding it with their arms out the windows, illustrates the difference between individualistic (Western) and communal (more Eastern/Australian) cultures. An Australian perspective naturally considers how one’s actions affect others, while extreme individualism can lead to dangerous disregard for community impact.

The Bed vs. The Mattress Purchase

The story of Americans buying a bed and immediately trying to transport it home on a two-door car (arms out the windows holding it down) versus a more communal approach demonstrates cultural values at a micro level - prioritizing individual convenience over community safety.

Potential Areas for Further Exploration

Theological and Historical Studies
  • The Genesis 1 Sabbath narrative and the significance of the missing refrain on the seventh day
  • Hebrews’ teaching on entering God’s rest and its connection to Sabbath theology
  • The theology of childlikeness in Scripture - what does it actually mean when Jesus says we must become like children?
  • Comparison of guilt-based vs. shame-based cultural contexts in biblical interpretation
  • The Stone-Campbell Restoration Movement and its approach to female pastoral leadership
  • Thomas Merton’s concept of the false self and its connection to the adult-ish self
Cultural and Contextual Theology
  • How Eastern Orthodox theology approaches rest, community, and the healing of all creation
  • Native American theological perspectives on the Gospel and creation
  • African-American, Asian-American, and Latino/a metaphors for understanding salvation and redemption
  • The intersection of feminist theology and childlike faith
  • Socialist vs. capitalist cultural values and their impact on Christian practice
  • Shame culture in contemporary social media and its implications for Gospel presentation
Spiritual Practices and Formation
  • Practical Sabbath-keeping in modern contexts (the 26-hour period and ongoing invitation)
  • Personal retreat day practices and creating space for interruption
  • The role of sensory experiences in spiritual formation
  • Practices for identifying and addressing the adult-ish self
  • Engaging with creation as spiritual discipline
  • The Enneagram Type 9 perspective on unity and belonging
Contemporary Ministry Challenges
  • Female pastoral leadership in Stone-Campbell and other conservative traditions
  • Phyllis Tickle’s theory of the church’s 500-year rummage sale and current transformation
  • Ministry in the COVID-19 era and beyond
  • Campus ministry in university contexts
  • The industrial church complex and alternatives focused on presence over production
  • Presenting the Gospel in post-Christian or never-Christian contexts
Writing and Creative Work
  • Writing as exploration and spiritual practice
  • The relationship between academic work (like Jamie Smith’s New Testament scholarship) and pastoral practice
  • The role of articles, books, and speaking in ongoing theological conversation
  • Creating space for reader response and continued exploration after publication

Comprehension Questions

  1. According to Mandy Smith, what are the four main barriers that prevent people from experiencing true rest, and how do Western cultural values reinforce these barriers?

  2. How does Mandy distinguish between “childlike,” “adult-like,” “childish,” and “adult-ish” approaches to faith? What characterizes each, and why does she argue we should aim for both childlike and adult-like rather than just one?

  3. What does Mandy mean when she says Sabbath teaches us to “rest from our own desire to be God”? How does the practice of taking a full day off contribute to this learning?

  4. Why does Mandy argue that Western Christianity’s typical presentation of the Gospel often doesn’t feel like good news? What alternatives does she suggest, and how do different cultural contexts (Eastern, Indigenous, minority) offer different metaphors?

  5. What is the “discipline of interruption” and how does it relate to childlike faith? Give an example from the episode of how paying attention to creation or sensory experiences can lead to deeper communion with God.

Personalized Summary

This conversation with Mandy Smith challenged me to reconsider rest not as mere time off but as a fundamental posture of releasing control and trusting God’s sustaining presence. The distinction between the “adult-ish” self and the “childlike” self provided language for something I’ve experienced but couldn’t name - that critical, shame-wielding voice that blocks me from receiving wonder, beauty, and divine interruption.

What struck me most powerfully was the quadrant diagram showing the tension between being comfortable with power and comfortable with powerlessness. The goal is not to eliminate all power or all vulnerability, but to hold both with humility - neither insecure in my limitations nor insecure in my responsibilities. This resonates deeply with the rabbinic teaching about carrying two slips of paper: “You are the crowning glory of creation” and “You are nothing but dust.”

The episode also expanded my understanding of how Western cultural values - individualism, productivity, respectability, intellectual primacy - have shaped Christianity in ways that actually obscure the Gospel. The examples of different cultural metaphors for salvation (guilt vs. shame, individual vs. communal, legal vs. familial) reminded me that the good news must actually feel like good news to be genuine.

Perhaps most practically, this conversation invited me to give value to sensory experiences, encounters with creation, and moments of interruption as legitimate spiritual formation - not distractions from “real” spiritual work but encounters with the Kingdom of God already flourishing around me. The dragonfly, the running water, the hawk on the updraft, the taste of coffee, the feel of the shower - all these are invitations to awareness of God’s presence and provision.

Finally, I’m challenged to identify what makes my own “adult-ish” self uncomfortable and to lean into that discomfort rather than fight it. The path to freedom lies not in battling the critical voice but in pursuing childlike openness and trust, even when it feels foolish or wasteful. As Mandy said, we may not become comfortable with our limitations, but we can grow used to the discomfort - and in that space, we find the Kingdom.

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